Religious Systems

**Haci9552** · January 7

As you know, religion has been one of the key factors behind the actions of basically all nations until the very recent secularization all around the world and especially during the medieval times religions and their various tenets and features were fundamental for the development of humanity as we know it, therefore I propose that religious systems must be properly implemented to the game and should have different mechanics depending on the belief and the time. I want to focus primarily on Islam and Christianity for this message, but if people like the ideas I am about to propose, I think ideas for other religions could also be developed.

Islam

As you know, there are three major branches of Islam, The Sunni, The Shia, and The Kharajites. Throughout history, those groups were fundamentally against each other, and religious harmony and the elimination of other sects was a major justification for war for all the groups. The rank of Caliphate is fundamental to this message as the Sunni Caliphate throughout history attempted to eliminate the Shia and the Kharajites due to them seeking a lineage of blood, the lineage of Ali instead of submitting to the interpretation of the Caliphate as being intermitted politically which made them natural enemies of the caliphate. For this reason, a rank or title called "Caliphate" could be added to the game which would be given to a Sunni nation along the historical borders(Such as the caliphate belonging to the Abbasids under Mamluk protection until 1517 and the Ottomans needing to borrow the title from the current Caliph instead of just acquiring it due to becoming the most powerful Sunni nation). I want to go into a little depth regarding the proposed title of the Caliphate, from then on which I will talk about possible mechanics regarding the Sunni-Shia conflict.

Caliphate

The Caliphate was both a religious and political title that was intermitted from the First 4 Caliphs to the Umayyads, from them to the Abbasids, and then to the Ottomans before being abolished for being a major barrier against Islamic modernization by Mustafa Kemal Atatürk. The title was created unofficially after the death of Muhammad and officially by Caliph Uthman and the title of Caliphate made the ruler that acquired it the leader of the Sunni world which made them the protector of the Islamic world and gave them access to religious wars under the name of "Jihad" essentially meaning defensive warfare against those who threaten Islam or the Muslims but eventually expanded to include offensive wars also. For this reason, the AI of the nation that would own the title of Caliphate can be made to be more aggressive towards foreign religions and nations.

Another key effect of the Caliphate on the development of Islam was its perspective on science and modernization which constantly switched throughout history. During the early stages of Islam, The Caliphs usually tried to boost scientific innovations and developments which allowed the Muslims to develop various technologies, especially regarding Alchemy and Medicine way before their European counterparts. However, this all changed during the second half of the 13th Century when the Mongols sacked Baghdad which was the center of both the Caliphate and the Islamic world. This caused the caliphate to abandon its pro-science features and turn to religious fundamentalism alongside isolationism while the West was beginning its modernization, and this change in the attitude of the caliphate toward scientific modernization was the key factor behind the eventual downfall of the Islamic civilization and the Islamic world becoming backward and left behind in comparison to the West. For those reasons, the title of the caliphate could boost scientific renovations during the early Islamic era but may become a barrier against further modernization after the second half of the 13th century. In addition, the aforementioned transformation of the caliphate eventually made the abolishment of the caliphate a necessity due to its backward properties and this could be added to the game as an option for the state that holds the title of the caliphate during the 20th century.

If a Shia power manages to capture the current Caliph while the Twelve Imams are still alive(Until like the 900's) they should be able to install a puppet Shia caliph also.

The sects of Islam and the Sunni-Shia conflict

The main division within Islam is regarding the transmission of the title of the Caliphate, The Shia supporting the transmission through lineage and the Sunnis through political struggle. Especially during the early stages of Islam the Shia were rather smaller and radical groups rather than organized entities and managed to become a relatively organized sect only after the Fatimids took over Egypt. Many groups that are Shia or have beliefs that are derived from Shia such as the Qaramitas could be integrated into the game as troublemakers against the early caliphates. I will leave a table of Islamic beliefs and sects that I created down below if a complete observation is needed there are so many interesting esoteric beliefs that could have their own unique mechanics and properties

Representation of Religions that derive from Islam

Due to the immense popularity and widespread nature of Islam, many religions such as Bahaism evolved from Islam over time. Those religions could be added through events such as Bahaism being developed in Iran during the 19th Century.

The conversion of the conquered regions to Islam

Different from Christianity and other religions, Islam mainly spread through economic causes. In Islamic states, it was a tradition to force the people of other religions to pay extra taxes to convert them to Islam over time instead, as was seen in the Umayyads or the Ottomans. In Ottomans, this was called the "Jizya Tax". Even without imperial authority, Islam found its way into Bengal and Indonesia through trade only and this could be added as a mechanic where if a region that isn't Christian or Jewish(Organized Religions) trades primarily with a Muslim region and there is a flow of Muslim merchants into the area, there is a chance that Islam may begin to spread there.

Early Islamic Scenarios

This may be a little complex, however, portraying the conflict between ibn Hashim and ibn Umayyad tribes before the Great Fitna(the event that caused the split between the Sunnis and the Shias) within the Rashidun Caliphate would be cool.

Christianity

I am sure the reformation etc. will be included in the game in some way or another and I am sure Lukasz is informed about those topics so I won't mention them much, However, I would like to highlight the potential mechanics surrounding the interactions between the Church and various Christian states and the conflict between gnostic or Arian churches and sects; and the Catholic(aka the Roman Church) especially during the early Christian period and other possible mechanics.

Interaction between the Church and Christian States

The Church had always been a source of political power and religious justification for powerful kings so there could be a way to sway the Pope toward taking favorable decisions through wealth and land. The Church would also be a unifying force for mainstream Christianity until the Great Schism(1054) and would persuade Christian states to attack other states or groups that have minority Christian beliefs such as the gnostics or The Bosnians with their Bogomils. Catholic Nations could also have a mechanic/decision to persecute or exile minorities.

Gnosticism and the Arian Churches

As you probably know the Gnostic beliefs assert a clear warfare between the good and the evil under the Christian doctrine and the Arian churches assert that Jesus was subordinate to God and in that sense separate from the Catholic Church. Those beliefs and churches were usually less organized than the mainstream version of Christianity which during the early stage of Christianity allowed them to spread way faster than the mainstream version. This could be added as a spread bonus to those minority beliefs.

Separation from Apocalyptic Judaism

Christianity began as a movement within Judaism and it took it 2-3 generations to fully split off Judaism. During the early stages of Christianity, this recent connection could be represented through parallels between the mechanics and properties of Apocalyptic Judaism and Early Christianity and the eventual separation could be implemented through events.

Crusades

I know people will probably gather around this idea the most because people really seem to be interested in the Crusades nowadays .D

Crusades were a direct reaction to the aforementioned early Muslim conquests. About the implementation, Crusades could be activated earlier or later than our timeline depending on the severity and the success of Muslim conquests but primarily would begin between 900-1150

Sorry for any possible grammatical errors, English is my secondary language(I am Turkish)

If many people like this idea of further exploration of religious systems and mechanics, I think more mechanics regarding religions such as Hinduism, Buddhism, Manicheasm(closely linked to early Christianity), Zoroastrianism, and local beliefs could be developed.

**Haci9552** · January 7

I believe that a further exploration of religions has great potential

**Haci9552** · January 7

If this sounds too complicated for the main game perhaps a mod that encompasses those features could be created

**Haci9552** · January 7

Now, thinking about it, sub branches of larger branches such as Sunni could be added as "Schools of Thought" under the main branch. Kinda similar to EU4

Edited January 7 by Haci9552

**Evis7** · January 12

On 1/7/2024 at 9:22 AM, Haci9552 said:

As you know, religion has been one of the key factors behind the actions of basically all nations until the very recent secularization all around the world and especially during the medieval times religions and their various tenets and features were fundamental for the development of humanity as we know it, therefore I propose that religious systems must be properly implemented to the game and should have different mechanics depending on the belief and the time. I want to focus primarily on Islam and Christianity for this message, but if people like the ideas I am about to propose, I think ideas for other religions could also be developed.

Islam

As you know, there are three major branches of Islam, The Sunni, The Shia, and The Kharajites. Throughout history, those groups were fundamentally against each other, and religious harmony and the elimination of other sects was a major justification for war for all the groups. The rank of Caliphate is fundamental to this message as the Sunni Caliphate throughout history attempted to eliminate the Shia and the Kharajites due to them seeking a lineage of blood, the lineage of Ali instead of submitting to the interpretation of the Caliphate as being intermitted politically which made them natural enemies of the caliphate. For this reason, a rank or title called "Caliphate" could be added to the game which would be given to a Sunni nation along the historical borders(Such as the caliphate belonging to the Abbasids under Mamluk protection until 1517 and the Ottomans needing to borrow the title from the current Caliph instead of just acquiring it due to becoming the most powerful Sunni nation). I want to go into a little depth regarding the proposed title of the Caliphate, from then on which I will talk about possible mechanics regarding the Sunni-Shia conflict.

Caliphate

The Caliphate was both a religious and political title that was intermitted from the First 4 Caliphs to the Umayyads, from them to the Abbasids, and then to the Ottomans before being abolished for being a major barrier against Islamic modernization by Mustafa Kemal Atatürk. The title was created unofficially after the death of Muhammad and officially by Caliph Uthman and the title of Caliphate made the ruler that acquired it the leader of the Sunni world which made them the protector of the Islamic world and gave them access to religious wars under the name of "Jihad" essentially meaning defensive warfare against those who threaten Islam or the Muslims but eventually expanded to include offensive wars also. For this reason, the AI of the nation that would own the title of Caliphate can be made to be more aggressive towards foreign religions and nations.

Another key effect of the Caliphate on the development of Islam was its perspective on science and modernization which constantly switched throughout history. During the early stages of Islam, The Caliphs usually tried to boost scientific innovations and developments which allowed the Muslims to develop various technologies, especially regarding Alchemy and Medicine way before their European counterparts. However, this all changed during the second half of the 13th Century when the Mongols sacked Baghdad which was the center of both the Caliphate and the Islamic world. This caused the caliphate to abandon its pro-science features and turn to religious fundamentalism alongside isolationism while the West was beginning its modernization, and this change in the attitude of the caliphate toward scientific modernization was the key factor behind the eventual downfall of the Islamic civilization and the Islamic world becoming backward and left behind in comparison to the West. For those reasons, the title of the caliphate could boost scientific renovations during the early Islamic era but may become a barrier against further modernization after the second half of the 13th century. In addition, the aforementioned transformation of the caliphate eventually made the abolishment of the caliphate a necessity due to its backward properties and this could be added to the game as an option for the state that holds the title of the caliphate during the 20th century.

If a Shia power manages to capture the current Caliph while the Twelve Imams are still alive(Until like the 900's) they should be able to install a puppet Shia caliph also.

The sects of Islam and the Sunni-Shia conflict

The main division within Islam is regarding the transmission of the title of the Caliphate, The Shia supporting the transmission through lineage and the Sunnis through political struggle. Especially during the early stages of Islam the Shia were rather smaller and radical groups rather than organized entities and managed to become a relatively organized sect only after the Fatimids took over Egypt. Many groups that are Shia or have beliefs that are derived from Shia such as the Qaramitas could be integrated into the game as troublemakers against the early caliphates. I will leave a table of Islamic beliefs and sects that I created down below if a complete observation is needed there are so many interesting esoteric beliefs that could have their own unique mechanics and properties

Representation of Religions that derive from Islam

Due to the immense popularity and widespread nature of Islam, many religions such as Bahaism evolved from Islam over time. Those religions could be added through events such as Bahaism being developed in Iran during the 19th Century.

The conversion of the conquered regions to Islam

Different from Christianity and other religions, Islam mainly spread through economic causes. In Islamic states, it was a tradition to force the people of other religions to pay extra taxes to convert them to Islam over time instead, as was seen in the Umayyads or the Ottomans. In Ottomans, this was called the "Jizya Tax". Even without imperial authority, Islam found its way into Bengal and Indonesia through trade only and this could be added as a mechanic where if a region that isn't Christian or Jewish(Organized Religions) trades primarily with a Muslim region and there is a flow of Muslim merchants into the area, there is a chance that Islam may begin to spread there.

Early Islamic Scenarios

This may be a little complex, however, portraying the conflict between ibn Hashim and ibn Umayyad tribes before the Great Fitna(the event that caused the split between the Sunnis and the Shias) within the Rashidun Caliphate would be cool.

Christianity

I am sure the reformation etc. will be included in the game in some way or another and I am sure Lukasz is informed about those topics so I won't mention them much, However, I would like to highlight the potential mechanics surrounding the interactions between the Church and various Christian states and the conflict between gnostic or Arian churches and sects; and the Catholic(aka the Roman Church) especially during the early Christian period and other possible mechanics.

Interaction between the Church and Christian States

The Church had always been a source of political power and religious justification for powerful kings so there could be a way to sway the Pope toward taking favorable decisions through wealth and land. The Church would also be a unifying force for mainstream Christianity until the Great Schism(1054) and would persuade Christian states to attack other states or groups that have minority Christian beliefs such as the gnostics or The Bosnians with their Bogomils. Catholic Nations could also have a mechanic/decision to persecute or exile minorities.

Gnosticism and the Arian Churches

As you probably know the Gnostic beliefs assert a clear warfare between the good and the evil under the Christian doctrine and the Arian churches assert that Jesus was subordinate to God and in that sense separate from the Catholic Church. Those beliefs and churches were usually less organized than the mainstream version of Christianity which during the early stage of Christianity allowed them to spread way faster than the mainstream version. This could be added as a spread bonus to those minority beliefs.

Separation from Apocalyptic Judaism

Christianity began as a movement within Judaism and it took it 2-3 generations to fully split off Judaism. During the early stages of Christianity, this recent connection could be represented through parallels between the mechanics and properties of Apocalyptic Judaism and Early Christianity and the eventual separation could be implemented through events.

Crusades

I know people will probably gather around this idea the most because people really seem to be interested in the Crusades nowadays .D

Crusades were a direct reaction to the aforementioned early Muslim conquests. About the implementation, Crusades could be activated earlier or later than our timeline depending on the severity and the success of Muslim conquests but primarily would begin between 900-1150

Sorry for any possible grammatical errors, English is my secondary language(I am Turkish)

If many people like this idea of further exploration of religious systems and mechanics, I think more mechanics regarding religions such as Hinduism, Buddhism, Manicheasm(closely linked to early Christianity), Zoroastrianism, and local beliefs could be developed.

that's pretty good

ETERNAL PEACE · January 12

pretty good

**Matvey** · January 14

If such a development is also connected with other religions such as Judaism (Hasidism, Kusarism, Litvaks + the phenomenon of Jewish settlement), Hinduism (Vishnuism, Shaivism, Shaktism...), etc. The possibility of the emergence of new directions during the game (the splitting of the Armenian Church from Orthodoxy). And also the opportunity, through events/laws/technologies, to move from one type of traditional belief to another, more organized religion; begin the process of transition of the country's population to atheism.