The Flaw That Killed AOH2 and Will Kill AOH3 if nothing is done about it

[OwnM3Z0 1,086]

PIRACY! 

 

piracy can easily stop deveolpment for the same reason it had a hand in stopping aoh2 development, its simple economics

money = new content

new content = updates

updates = new buyers for the game

 

the issue comes when you remove the first part, money, out of the equation, the whole infrastructure collapses and soon enough: 

no more new content, no more new updates, no more new buyers, meaning even less money is earned now, lukasz hasn't realized that this was the fatal mistake he made with aoh2, making a new game with the same mistake won't change anything, it will just be a new victim, and all this work will go down the drain

 

 

if lukasz is reading this he is probably thinking: ''how can i fix this? there's nothing to be done about it right?''

 

well you're WRONG

 

see, looking at the statistics:

95% of mobile games are pirated, same for 35% of PC games, and 50-60% in IOS games, what do you notice from this? any mobile player most likely will pirate the game, meaning you really just need to add ways to stop android and IOS piracy and you would be ready to go, but how?!

 

to know this, we need to look at other examples of indie/small dev games that exist on both PC and Mobile who fixed this issue, luckily= we have the PERFECT example for this:

 

Worldbox, you might or might not be familiar with the game, it's a sandbox pixel game where you can create a piece of land and add people and watch them build towns and go to war with each other, anyways, the game pretty much is impossible to find on the internet nowadays for android at least, how? they did three things

 

1- take down piracy websites for android(i don't know how they did that but they did it, maybe lukasz can ask them himself, here's the discord server :https://discord.com/invite/worldbox)

2- locked most features behind a wall, and focused on banning hacks for newer versions that provided these features for free, thus discouraging the priates from downloading the files since they're not getting anything new + made their jobs easier, i will expand on this 

3- active community that reports the websites through discord

 

 

Now, Expanding On Point two: they locked it in behind a paywall, this won't be possible because otherwise @Das Moss Man would start a french revolution and both me and lukasz will be put to the guillotine 💀, seriously though, you can make it so that proof of purchase (bank credentials or smth) have to be sent to some sort of discord bot that will analyze the image and compare it to a database of purchases of the game, once a picture has been used it cannot be reused again, idk if this is possible, there are better idea's that genuinely worked for other devs but i will email them for secrecy as i'm sure many among the readers will pirate aoh3 or at least try

 

 dela

another BIG BIG issue is modding, mods can easily be used to pirate the game, which is why i propose that mod's be undownloadable outside steam workshop for PC's, and for the Epic store i suggest a method similar to the android method below this one

 

for the android method the mods shouldn't be modified versions of the game, but zip files that are copied into a folder in the game using ZArchiver for example to work, this will make mods depend on having the game downloaded and will make modding (which according to lukasz will be the backbone of aoh3) safe and still require a purchase of the game unlike aoh2 where lukasz was literally liking posts that gave the game away for free unknowingly (no offense to lukasz but this was the sad reality of modding for him back then)

 

 

 

@Łukasz Jakowski this is so essential that i would recommend you literally delay the game to sort this issue otherwise you will earn scraps whether it's fair on not, it's a harsh world we live in mr Jakowski

 

[OwnM3Z0 1,086]

email was sent to jakowskidev@gmail.com

[Wayne23lololh 1,625]

Great +1

[Naval 210]

I mostly argree with you but there are some issues.

1.

The money -> updates scheme don't working properly, very important there is motivation, which you drop out in this construction. The right one Will looks like:

money -> motivation -> updates.

and motivation could decresed when game bad codded, according to Łukasz words in AOH2 is hard to add new features.

2.

The piracy in general. AOH2 was extremely pirated. Even in this forum mods continues to post and all this mods delivered in --- file, which mean that the whole game is stoled and anyone can download this stolen version without any consiquences

Łukasz don't trying to beat them, because is very death-like action, to kill the commutiny initiative of your game. He was doing the most right. Just allowing the community to do what they want. 

You can say YOOOO ŁUKASZ IS SUPPORTIBG PIRACY, but it's also not true, he banned the leak of AOH2 source code and a guide how to build the game source code. He's fighting against the people, who attempting to make his work public-owned.

Łukasz also understood that android is place of superpiracy and he made the AOH3 PC-oriented, like he said. And android will have the less features than the PC one. All is to prevent the android piracy. (Android segment not gives money, therefore no features for us) AND MODS NOW CAN BE DOWNLOADED WITHOUT FULL GAME STOLING This will make the most important piracy branch more irrelivant. I think also because game written in java the PC mods can be easily be ported into Android like you writted above something like in ZIP archives.

3. 

My own thoughts that you can don't like at all but I would to say. 

I want to AOH3 be Garry's mod of grand strategy genre. The game, in which you can create the story or world what you want. With really massive customisation. And I Think that customisation capability that game have now is not a end point, I would think that it be expanded with way more new features. 

Okay. I think this is end

Edited June 10 by Naval

[Guest]

I feel like Lukasz himself has no problems with piracy and his game being modded more than everything else, otherwise, he wouldn't have created a page for MODS in these forums and allowed them to work independently of having the main game or not.

(Maybe he's just the son of some billionaire and doesn't care about the revenue, only about creating a good game and pleasing his fans xD)

[Siamese 79]

5 minutes ago, PHZanoniGamer said:

I feel like Lukasz himself has no problems with piracy and his game being modded more than everything else, otherwise, he wouldn't have created a page for MODS in these forums and allowed them to work independently of having the main game or not.

(Maybe he's just the son of some billionaire and doesn't care about the revenue, only about creating a good game and pleasing his fans xD)

He is erm actually Notch's son. And notch said to pirate the game. This is why Poland and Sweden have good relations in Megamod.

[qxz 615]

Steam Workshop integration acts as a deterrent to piracy.

Piracy of games has and will always exist no matter what you do, people will always find loopholes, it is just a matter of time.

Taking down piracy websites will do nothing, as you take down a website, another one will simply pop up.

It is a shame people pirate indie games

Edited June 10 by qxz

[OwnM3Z0 1,086]

58 minutes ago, PHZanoniGamer said:

I feel like Lukasz himself has no problems with piracy and his game being modded more than everything else, otherwise, he wouldn't have created a page for MODS in these forums and allowed them to work independently of having the main game or not.

(Maybe he's just the son of some billionaire and doesn't care about the revenue, only about creating a good game and pleasing his fans xD)

'im saying that the mods should be uploadable in any way other than uploading the game for free lmao

[Das Moss Man 455]

9 hours ago, OwnM3Z0 said:

they locked it in behind a paywall, this won't be possible because otherwise @Das Moss Man would start a french revolution and both me and lukasz will be put to the guillotine 💀,

I wouldn't, I'd gladly pay to support  Lukasz 

[bun_dha4 381]

quite funny that aoh2 is one of the few games i've bought legally.

(completely unrelated to the case ☠)

Edited June 10 by bun_dha4

[Денис Живков 751]

9 hours ago, OwnM3Z0 said:

no more new content, no more new updates, no more new buyers, meaning even less money is earned now, lukasz hasn't realized that this was the fatal mistake he made with aoh2, making a new game with the same mistake won't change anything, it will just be a new victim, and all this work will go down the drain

I don't want to be jailed for my message, but piracy can happen even in the newest games. Games that have become legendary but have not been updated can be purchased and will receive game incentives from users.

It's trite, but if a game attracts more users, then it attracts more pirates accordingly.

It can be fixed by having the purchased game include...for example, multiplayer. On the other hand, if some updates are released, people will not have time to spend and will be forced to buy to play the new version.

 

Often piracy is the only way out of a situation when the game is prohibitively expensive. I'm not an anti-piracy expert, because3 I myself only play games that I haven't spent a dime on, but I can recommend some ways to fight against me :3

 

1. The price of the game needs to be normal, then the game will be downloaded often because they will think about safety. It’s better to spend 90-150 cents/rubles, then it’s better to pay than to download with miners.

2. You need to keep in touch with the community. The game, you see, is not a child, a man needs to look after him. Follow this project. You need to kind of communicate with the community. You may even want to update the game. Then the old pirates are moving because the version they are on is outdated and they may not be able to keep up with the new movements of the community.

3. It is worthwhile to genocide those who pirate. It is possible to ban their accounts (and make it more difficult to log in to the forum, otherwise I think every second person on the forum has a second account just in case) by deleting their content (but some content should be left), and in addition, give power over a certain part of the forum to a trusted person circle of people. Because it is very difficult to control a horde of 53,818 people alone. Yes, not the entire part is active, but I think that this is temporary.

4.What does the communities tab mean? what kind of communities? How to manage them? Sorry for being off topic, but I didn't understand this at all...

[Das Moss Man 455]

Piracy is big problem, I propose anti piracy screen. With Lukasz looking at you disappointed, with sad music playing. But after 5 seconds it dissappear and when they play game all of the civs are overpowered 

[Das Moss Man 455]

WE SHOULD SENTENCE PIRATES TO DEATH

Edited June 10 by Das Moss Man

[bun_dha4 381]

8 minutes ago, Das Moss Man said:

Piracy is big problem, I propose anti piracy screen. With Lukasz looking at you disappointed, with sad music playing. But after 5 seconds it dissappear and when they play game all of the civs are overpowered 

basically ultra-legendary mode (i would play)

[Kiwi 150]

10 hours ago, OwnM3Z0 said:

PIRATARIA! 

 

a pirataria pode facilmente impedir o desenvolvimento pela mesma razão que ajudou a impedir o desenvolvimento do aoh2: sua economia simples

dinheiro = novo conteúdo

novo conteúdo = atualizações

atualizações = novos compradores para o jogo

 

o problema surge quando você remove a primeira parte, o dinheiro, da equação, toda a infraestrutura entra em colapso e logo: 

sem mais conteúdo novo, sem novas atualizações, sem novos compradores, o que significa que ainda menos dinheiro é ganho agora, lukasz não percebeu que esse foi o erro fatal que ele cometeu com aoh2, fazer um novo jogo com o mesmo erro não vai mude alguma coisa, será apenas uma nova vítima, e todo esse trabalho irá por água abaixo

 

 

se lukasz está lendo isso, provavelmente está pensando: ''como posso consertar isso? não há nada a ser feito sobre isso, certo?

 

bem, você está ERRADO

 

veja, olhando as estatísticas:

95% dos jogos para celular são piratas, o mesmo acontece com 35% dos jogos para PC e 50-60% nos jogos IOS, o que você percebe nisso? qualquer jogador móvel provavelmente irá piratear o jogo, o que significa que você realmente só precisa adicionar maneiras de impedir a pirataria de Android e IOS e você estará pronto para começar, mas como?!

 

para saber isso, precisamos olhar outros exemplos de jogos indie/small dev que existem tanto no PC quanto no Mobile que corrigiram esse problema, felizmente = temos o exemplo PERFEITO para isso:

 

Worldbox, você pode ou não estar familiarizado com o jogo, é um jogo de pixel sandbox onde você pode criar um pedaço de terreno e adicionar pessoas e vê-las construir cidades e entrar em guerra entre si, de qualquer forma, o jogo é praticamente impossível encontrar na internet hoje em dia pelo menos para android, como? eles fizeram três coisas

 

1- derrubar sites de pirataria para Android (não sei como eles fizeram isso, mas eles fizeram isso, talvez o próprio Lukasz possa perguntar, aqui está o servidor discord: https://discord.com/invite/worldbox )

2- bloqueou a maioria dos recursos atrás de uma parede e focou em banir hacks para versões mais recentes que forneciam esses recursos gratuitamente, desencorajando assim os priates de baixar os arquivos, já que eles não estão recebendo nada de novo + facilitou seu trabalho, vou expandir esse 

3- comunidade ativa que denuncia os sites através do discord

 

 

Agora, expandindo o ponto dois: eles o trancaram atrás de um acesso pago, isso não será possível porque, caso contrário@Das Homem Musgo iniciaria uma revolução francesa e eu e Lukasz seríamos colocados na guilhotina 💀 , falando sério, você pode fazer com que o comprovante de compra (credenciais bancárias ou smth) seja enviado para algum tipo de bot de discórdia que analisará o imagem e compará-la com um banco de dados de compras do jogo, uma vez que uma imagem foi usada ela não pode ser reutilizada novamente, não sei se isso é possível, existem ideias melhores que realmente funcionaram para outros desenvolvedores, mas irei enviá-las por e-mail para sigilo, pois eu tenho certeza que muitos leitores irão piratear o AOH3 ou pelo menos tentar

 

 dela

outro GRANDE problema é o modding, os mods podem ser facilmente usados para piratear o jogo, e é por isso que proponho que os mods não possam ser baixados fora do Steam Workshop para PCs, e para a loja Epic eu sugiro um método semelhante ao método Android abaixo deste.

 

para o método android os mods não devem ser versões modificadas do jogo, mas sim arquivos zip que são copiados para uma pasta no jogo usando o ZArchiver por exemplo para funcionar, isso fará com que os mods dependam de ter o jogo baixado e fará o modding ( que de acordo com lukasz será a espinha dorsal do aoh3) seguro e ainda exigirá a compra do jogo, ao contrário do aoh2, onde lukasz estava literalmente gostando de postagens que distribuíam o jogo de graça sem saber (sem ofensa para lukasz, mas essa era a triste realidade do modding para ele naquela época)

 

 

 

@Łukasz Jakowski isso é tão essencial que eu recomendo que você literalmente adie o jogo para resolver esse problema, caso contrário você ganhará recados, seja justo ou não, é um mundo difícil em que vivemos, Sr. Jakowski

 

This won't work, one way or another Worldbox has a way of pirating (I've even done this. Do I regret it? DEFINITELY NOT!!) It would be better if it was similar to Theotown where if it detects it it bans you instantly  

[Денис Живков 751]

16 minutes ago, Kiwi said:

This won't work, one way or another Worldbox has a way of pirating (I've even done this. Do I regret it? DEFINITELY NOT!!) It would be better if it was similar to Theotown where if it detects it it bans you instantly

games related to multiplayer require registration, and you can register in the game only by downloading the game and receiving it in a message. There is simply a temptation to buy the game to play multiplayer.
This is the case with the sensational One Hour One Life.

[OwnM3Z0 1,086]

20 minutes ago, Kiwi said:

This won't work, one way or another Worldbox has a way of pirating (I've even done this. Do I regret it? DEFINITELY NOT!!) It would be better if it was similar to Theotown where if it detects it it bans you instantly  

people who pirate indie games are ruining the game industry

2 minutes ago, Денис Живков said:

games related to multiplayer require registration, and you can register in the game only by downloading the game and receiving it in a message. There is simply a temptation to buy the game to play multiplayer.
This is the case with the sensational One Hour One Life.

i agree, if lukasz adds multiplayer it will be sorted out to a certain extent no?

 

don't expect this on alpha release tho 💀

[Денис Живков 751]

11 minutes ago, OwnM3Z0 said:

i agree, if lukasz adds multiplayer it will be sorted out to a certain extent no?

 

don't expect this on alpha release tho 💀

In addition to adding multiplayer, there are other problems.

Multiplayer is not the main part of the game. Both in First Strike And in the game it is so dumb that it can be taken out by 1 province at the maximum difficulty level. But the game has multiplayer. All I can say is that if the game doesn't have smart enough AI, then multiplayer makes sense to play with real people who aren't smart enough.

[Brianman 95]

Most of this would discourage buying the game on phone, pay walls suck.

You cannot win against piracy, people are SMART and would do anything to not pay, including myself.

 

I really don't like you.

[Денис Живков 751]

7 minutes ago, Brianman said:

Most of this would discourage buying the game on phone, pay walls suck.

You cannot win against piracy, people are SMART and would do anything to not pay, including myself.

 

I really don't like you.

No, what are you doing? No one said that the game on the phones will be paid! We're talking about piracy. And on phones, this is the most common case. He was just trying to find solutions to piracy in the whole game....As am I, too..

[Guest]

11 hours ago, OwnM3Z0 said:

'im saying that the mods should be uploadable in any way other than uploading the game for free lmao

 

I understand, your proposition of having a steam workshop for it would work the best...
Although from what is understandable according to his leaks, modding doesn't look like it'll be any different from AoH2, and we'll ending up getting a different AoH3 modified copy every time we download a mod... And the sad part is that even if Lukasz wrote some codes that could end up making it harder to pirate, someone with coding skills would disable it.

 

 

[Wayne23lololh 1,625]

11 hours ago, Brianman said:

Most of this would discourage buying the game on phone, pay walls suck.

You cannot win against piracy, people are SMART and would do anything to not pay, including myself.

 

I really don't like you.

Kiddo, just ask your mom, thing I will do, so stop crying about this, you will become a good citizen ✊

[Abhi44xx 3]

Necessity is the mother of invention 

No one can stop piracy 

Only thing company do make it's harder 

[Денис Живков 751]

On 6/10/2024 at 10:37 AM, Naval said:

The money -> updates scheme don't working properly, very important there is motivation, which you drop out in this construction. The right one Will looks like:

money -> motivation -> updates.

In fact, the 2 cell you suggested is not working properly.. The fact is that motivation is something independent, something like the inspiration that occurs in young writers.

Money does not lead to motivation. And motivation does not mean updating the game.

When a studio is working on a game, we exclude these factors...such as

- mood

- free time (time from classes with loved ones and from work (or something else))

- The desire to do something by itself (but it is usually overcome by motivation, although not completely)

On 6/10/2024 at 10:37 AM, Naval said:

And android will have the less features than the PC one.

Hahahah, that's a good way. If the game is bad and when downloading the original one from the play market, that it will be the same if downloaded from a pirated resource. Hahahah, that's a good plan!))

On 6/10/2024 at 10:37 AM, Naval said:

I want to AOH3 be Garry's mod of grand strategy genre. The game, in which you can create the story or world what you want. With really massive customisation. And I Think that customisation capability that game have now is not a end point, I would think that it be expanded with way more new features.

 

Look at this dude! He asked LUKAS if the game would be a SANDBOX IF HE GOT BORED OF PLAYING STRATEGY.

Just think, he said it before you, but apparently people like you want exactly the same thing 🙂

[AmericanLiberia 73]

On 6/10/2024 at 1:30 PM, bun_dha4 said:

basically ultra-legendary mode (i would play)

Me too. But still buying the game hah